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darren_strangerThinking about some articles linked by Hestia on a turnaround in corporate
ethics (http://www.livejournal.com/users/hestia/560064.html) and Greylock on the government covering up doubts on Iraqi WMD reports (http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200503/s1333895.htm , http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200503/s1334282.htm) has reminded me of an idea that's been kicking about the back of my skull for a little while.
Basically, i sometimes wonder if the very fact that we expect politicians to be lying bastards, business leaders to be soulless profiteers, news agencies to twist facts to suit an 'angle' etc not only contributes to that being the situation by lowering our expectations of what's acceptable (as has often been suggested) but in fact writes the roles for what it is to be a politican, business leader, newscaster etc that these people are acting out. In accepting and complaining that our politicans, for instance, will be deceitful, self-seeking opportunists who can't be trusted as far as you could spit, are we in fact drafting the position descrition for what sort of people we get running our countries, or even writing the script to tell people how to behave as political leaders?
Needs more thought, but there's a theory in there somewhere, which must tie in with the idea of focussing on what society should be like, rather than what's wrong with it.
ethics (http://www.livejournal.com/users/hestia/560064.html) and Greylock on the government covering up doubts on Iraqi WMD reports (http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200503/s1333895.htm , http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200503/s1334282.htm) has reminded me of an idea that's been kicking about the back of my skull for a little while.
Basically, i sometimes wonder if the very fact that we expect politicians to be lying bastards, business leaders to be soulless profiteers, news agencies to twist facts to suit an 'angle' etc not only contributes to that being the situation by lowering our expectations of what's acceptable (as has often been suggested) but in fact writes the roles for what it is to be a politican, business leader, newscaster etc that these people are acting out. In accepting and complaining that our politicans, for instance, will be deceitful, self-seeking opportunists who can't be trusted as far as you could spit, are we in fact drafting the position descrition for what sort of people we get running our countries, or even writing the script to tell people how to behave as political leaders?
Needs more thought, but there's a theory in there somewhere, which must tie in with the idea of focussing on what society should be like, rather than what's wrong with it.
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no subject
Date: 2005-03-31 01:45 am (UTC)The act of all creation merely lies in observation!
Uncertainty Principle
Date: 2005-03-31 10:18 am (UTC)Re: Uncertainty Principle
Date: 2005-03-31 04:12 pm (UTC)You get it!
Schoedingers cat. Heisenbergs uncertainty principle. Wigners Friend.
Zen and quantum physics!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
CAT IN A BOX!!!!!!!
Lets rap about metaphysics!
Metaphysics
Date: 2005-04-01 10:18 pm (UTC)I recently got a book out of the uni library called "Space Time and Beyond" (Bob Toben & Fred Wolf / Dutton. - ISBN 0889-260) which attempts to explain just how consciousness affects the universes (there's maybe a lot more than one).
I'm a neo-pagan myself, and believe that outcomes can affected by attitude (sometimes called prayer or magic).
Re: Metaphysics
Date: 2005-04-03 06:20 am (UTC)Re: Metaphysics
Date: 2005-04-03 10:12 am (UTC)Re: Metaphysics
Date: 2005-04-03 11:19 pm (UTC)I keep forgetting to ask, what does that mean?
Re: Metaphysics
Date: 2005-04-04 07:34 am (UTC)In more practical terms, it's a way for me to realise and express a spiritual path, based on who I am. I've got lots more info at my Pagan website.
no subject
Date: 2005-04-01 11:36 am (UTC)I read a book years ago by (i think) Deepak Chopra which was basically concerned with influencing your life through thought and expectation. It touched on concepts from observation of subatomic particles influencing their physical reality (Schroedinger etc) as an example of thought influencing the physical world, through to a basic "everything anyone has ever built or achieved started as a thought in someone's head" level. But whether or not you buy into metaphysical concepts of spiritual energies or the universe responding to your thoughts, it seems pretty clear that in complicated areas like psychology and group behaviour, ideas and expecxtations are going to have an appreciable ripple effect. Humans being what we are, self-image and role expectations would have to have a huge impact, i would think. (Granted, i probably think that because i'm very self-image influenced myself, but it does seem to hold true for most people i see around me).
I think one thing that really clarified for me the idea of people playing out roles was the concept of 'enacting a story' that i came across in the book Ishmael by Daniel Quinn. That was explained by the example of Nazi Germany, where Hitler gave the people a story - that of the Thousand Year Reich, German supremacy, world domination etc - and then the people went out and 'enacted' it, ie made it become reality (or tried to). Quinn put it that all human cultures are basically about enacting certain stories in that way. Quite a neat concept, and puts a finger on a few ideas i'd never quite been able to pin down before.
Gah, excuse the rambling. Can't afford alcohol this weekend so i'm resporing killing brain cells with loud music alone, which makes for slightly less fluid idea-flow.
no subject
Date: 2005-04-02 01:56 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-04-03 06:19 am (UTC)we should have a beer and a chat next time i'm in melbourne may 20.
If youre fully interested in this stuff i can rap with you for hours (specially if i'm speeding!).
In the meantime-check out the works of (among others) Robert Anton Wilson who manages to satify both the mystic and the scientific aspects of it without alienating non labcoats like me.
the book 'quantum psychology' in particular is a jolly good read.
no subject
Date: 2005-03-31 02:16 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-03-31 04:13 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-04-01 10:55 am (UTC)Even more than creating your own reality, i'm thinking it can also be a case of self-fulfilling prophecy in actual reality, setting up the roles which people then follow (which they do all the time).
I've often seen it in one direction when people (myself included) say things like "i could never make it in business/politics - i'm too honest" and therefore don't go into areas that could really do with a few more honest people. And from the other direction, it strikes me that maybe one of the biggest problems with the concept of being 'left' or 'liberal' etc is that it takes all those issues lefties are fond of and make it something that only matters to those who think of themselves that way. If you don't identify with the disposal-clad Green Left Weekly sellers on the corner or dreadlocked tripod-sitters, then what has a rainforest or detention centre got to do with you? It's almost like the message is "if you're a radical, weed-tokin', drum-beatin' square-freaker-outerer, have we got the issue for you. If not, please go back to thinking about the footy, cars and your mortgage."
This latest bit of the puzzle has been coming to me just lately, especially in terms of whether things like images in popular culture (movies, books etc) of soulless corporations and gestapo-like government agencies have actually set things up to become just like the scenario the stories were 'warning' us about.
It all kind of ties in with ideas i was having last year about "living life as if the world is how it should be" (can't even remember where i nicked that idea from), though how to balance that with a healthy cynicism (ie to keep an eye on the bastards) is the hard bit.
no subject
Date: 2005-04-02 01:50 am (UTC)To bring it back to a thought pattern I have toyed with, one admittedly mundane, I believe that the common cold is so common because of a mass belief in its effect. I believe that if you think you are suseptible to colds you will get them. Colds, for me, are a symptom of needing time out. On some unconscious level if there are people around you with colds & you feel like you need time out you will accept the cold as a means of achieving it.
I once stated in my 100 things about me post, that I understiood my relationship to God. My theory on it is that God is a vast synergy of all thought by all creation. Therefore my relationship to God is that I am part of God & able to influence it. God is merely a convenient label to place on it.
*shrug*
Naturally all theories are open to debate & interpretation. That is, afterall, the nature of the beast.
no subject
Date: 2005-03-31 02:47 am (UTC)I have yet to think of a way to raise people's expectations again, though. It may just have to drift around to a natural wave of realisation of the state of things. Then perhaps a revolution of some kind.
I think at the moment the best we can do is keep our own values and extoll their virtues when appropriate.
no subject
Date: 2005-03-31 04:14 pm (UTC)www.thatchnoir.com
no subject
Date: 2005-04-01 11:02 am (UTC)The only way i can think to help raise expectations is for people (en masse) to act as if they really *did* expect our leaders and newsbringers to act better than that. Shock and outrage needs to come back into fashion, no matter how much outrage-fatigue we're all suffering.
As far as revolution goes, i could honestly see that happening in the USA one day, if life keeps getting tougher for those at the bottom end of the food chain. They've got all o'them guns for starters and a strong history of armed struggle woven into their sense of patriotism, so why not? (Any wonder the Powers Wot Be keep findng external enemies for people to focus on).
no subject
Date: 2005-03-31 10:16 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-04-01 11:10 am (UTC)I think everybody follows a script or plays a role to some extent. That's one thing subscribing to a 'subculture' makes really clear. Giving your stereotype a name (or several names) makes it more obvious, then you notice everyone else playing to their steretype(s) too. It just hadn't dawned on me how likely it is that the growing cynicism toward people like politicians, business leaders and journalists could be moulding not just the 'job description' but the roles that these people maybe even unconsciously follow.
no subject
Date: 2005-04-04 07:37 am (UTC)