This never happened to Pablo Picasso..
Aug. 15th, 2012 08:28 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
darren_strangerI've been reading a few articles on 'creepers' that have been doing the rounds on Facebook, such as:
http://captainawkward.com/2012/08/07/322-323-my-friend-group-has-a-case-of-the-creepy-dude-how-do-we-clear-that-up/
http://captainawkward.com/2012/08/11/the-c-word/
and others linked from those.
While the perpectives are interesting and very good food for thought, what's been especially interesting has been to watch some of the emotional reactions it's stirred up for me.
There were quite a few things i recognised from the days when i used to knowingly or unknowingly act in creepy ways, and seeing some things spelled out clarified a lot about my past behaviour and what effect it may have had, both on others and for myself. For one thing, not understanding that you don't have to be actively doing something sleazy to give off sleazy vibes was something that probably caused great confusion in my younger years. I think for a long while i've at least half suspected that a lot of the social rejection i experienced in my youth may have come as a result of "emitting loud, obvious vibes of 'I'm only here to get laid'", as one writer put it. I cringed more than once at recognising aspects of myself in the descriptions.
The topic of social ostracism itself dredged up some stuff too, and reading lines like "If you are creeping on other people, they have a perfect right to ignore you, avoid you and shut you out - and not tell you why.." or "..the group contracts or turns away from you.." rubbed at some very old wounds. If such things only happened as a result of creeping, that would be understandable, but i doubt it's as simple as that. Social awkwardness and poor self esteem give rise to many unskillful behaviours, sexual or non-sexual, which often result in more rejection and feed back into that lack of confidence. I couldn't really say what had more effect in my case, even if the interplay of issues like awkwardness, self esteem, creepiness, sexual and social rejection could be untangled and isolated. Short of having a time machine, i don't know what difference it would make anyway, unless i ever get the opportunity to give advice to someone making the same mistakes i did.
Past regrets aside, though, i realised last night that perhaps the greatest emotional response in me actually came from the simple reminder that there are people out there with active social lives, who have circles of friends, go to parties, interact with others socially and actually have a practical reason to consider the intricacies of sexual politics and interpersonal relationships. All of that seems like an alien world to me, even more so since moving to the 'burbs. I try not to think too much about things like that, but it's surprising how quickly the practice of appreciating the things you do have can be disturbed by an unexpected reminder of things you don't.
http://captainawkward.com/2012/08/07/322-323-my-friend-group-has-a-case-of-the-creepy-dude-how-do-we-clear-that-up/
http://captainawkward.com/2012/08/11/the-c-word/
and others linked from those.
While the perpectives are interesting and very good food for thought, what's been especially interesting has been to watch some of the emotional reactions it's stirred up for me.
There were quite a few things i recognised from the days when i used to knowingly or unknowingly act in creepy ways, and seeing some things spelled out clarified a lot about my past behaviour and what effect it may have had, both on others and for myself. For one thing, not understanding that you don't have to be actively doing something sleazy to give off sleazy vibes was something that probably caused great confusion in my younger years. I think for a long while i've at least half suspected that a lot of the social rejection i experienced in my youth may have come as a result of "emitting loud, obvious vibes of 'I'm only here to get laid'", as one writer put it. I cringed more than once at recognising aspects of myself in the descriptions.
The topic of social ostracism itself dredged up some stuff too, and reading lines like "If you are creeping on other people, they have a perfect right to ignore you, avoid you and shut you out - and not tell you why.." or "..the group contracts or turns away from you.." rubbed at some very old wounds. If such things only happened as a result of creeping, that would be understandable, but i doubt it's as simple as that. Social awkwardness and poor self esteem give rise to many unskillful behaviours, sexual or non-sexual, which often result in more rejection and feed back into that lack of confidence. I couldn't really say what had more effect in my case, even if the interplay of issues like awkwardness, self esteem, creepiness, sexual and social rejection could be untangled and isolated. Short of having a time machine, i don't know what difference it would make anyway, unless i ever get the opportunity to give advice to someone making the same mistakes i did.
Past regrets aside, though, i realised last night that perhaps the greatest emotional response in me actually came from the simple reminder that there are people out there with active social lives, who have circles of friends, go to parties, interact with others socially and actually have a practical reason to consider the intricacies of sexual politics and interpersonal relationships. All of that seems like an alien world to me, even more so since moving to the 'burbs. I try not to think too much about things like that, but it's surprising how quickly the practice of appreciating the things you do have can be disturbed by an unexpected reminder of things you don't.
no subject
Date: 2012-08-16 01:58 am (UTC)Oh, there is that. And i'm sure people have been labelled 'creeper' for little more than showing interest in someone, but i don't think any of those articles were coming from there. The ones i read were pretty clearly about antisocial behaviour, which i agree is the responsibility of the person doing it. Perhaps the one view that i objected to was this one:
"3. Acknowledge that no one’s required to inform you that you’re creeping (or help you to not be a creeper). It’s nice when people let you know when you’re going wrong and how. But you know what? That’s not their job. It’s especially not their job at a convention or some other social gathering, where the reason they are there is to hang out with friends and have fun, and not to give some dude an intensive course in how not to make other people intensely uncomfortable with his presence. If you are creeping on other people, they have a perfect right to ignore you, avoid you and shut you out — and not tell you why. Again: you are (probably) a fully-functioning adult. This is something you need to be able to handle on your own."
While that's technically all true, and might be a good perspective for someone that's using ignorance as an excuse, i don't think it's exactly helpful for actually solving the problem. If someone's acting in ways that make you uncomfortable and you want them to change their behaviour, how about actually telling them so? Could be a good place to start at least. The guy in question may have No Fucking Idea that he's being 'creepy' and may just need to be set straight. Simply shunning someone without explanation isn't going to achieve much if they have no idea what they've done. (As you can probably guess, i have quite vivid memories of occasions of very pointed ostracism that i still have no idea, 25 years later, what they were about. These articles got me wondering if it could have been because of something i'd done, rather than the 'loser' sign sticky-taped to my back that i always assumed it to be, but i'll never know.) At least in the first article, some people went out of their way to tell the 'creeper' what he was doing wrong. They probably deserve a medal or something.
I guess you could also get into other issues like mixed signals, manipulation or people (of either gender) using sexuality as a weapon, but i think that's probably outside the scope of what these articles are on about.
Still, what was it you were thinking of?
no subject
Date: 2012-08-16 02:09 am (UTC)I don't know anymore.
no subject
Date: 2012-08-16 02:13 am (UTC)Sorry, i got carried away with my own train of thought.